Mixed climbing wisdom

Gaston? High Step? Drop Knee? Talk in here.
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pigsteak
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Post by pigsteak » Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:01 pm

rhunt..so a "gear" route is not a "trad" route? thanks for really clarifying this thing.

yasmeen, we purists don't bolt cracks, no matter how steep. heck, traddies don't even climb lines that are past vert...it would seem too much like bouldering, and we know that is just practice.
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Post by anticlmber » Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:06 pm

i agree with you piggie pig, we should all sack up and start doing this stuff on gear. the grades may have progressed slower but at least we'd still have our balls between our legs. (or labia) strip the bolts and bust out the thingy mabobbers.
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Post by Day » Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:11 pm

There are probably no "mixed routes" in the Red. There are sport routes and trad routes. Some of the trad routes have some fixed gear. The use of the term "mixed" to designate a trad route with at least one bolt is a rather quaint local custom.

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Post by pigsteak » Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:10 pm

Mr. Day..how much fixed gear can a line have and still be a trad line?

Anti, so I say we put it to a vote. Starting in 2007, if someone sends a route on gear, then all the bolts should be chopped. I will offer up any of my routes for this sacrifice. Only rules are that you can't be a wuss and climb the thing on the bolts first. Gotta go ground up on sight. If you do this, let me know, and I give you permission to chop the bolts.

PS- I want my hangers back. Any takers?
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Post by Day » Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:47 pm

It can be 100% fixed gear and still be trad. Many Tuolumne and Joshua Tree classics are 100% bolt protected. These routes were established ground up, on lead, and are most definitely not sport climbs.

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Post by pigsteak » Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:56 pm

Day wrote:It can be 100% fixed gear and still be trad. Many Tuolumne and Joshua Tree classics are 100% bolt protected. These routes were established ground up, on lead, and are most definitely not sport climbs.
I learned something today. So I can take a rack of 12 draws, and climb a trad route?
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Post by 512OW » Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:06 pm

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Post by ynot » Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:10 pm

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Post by dyno_heaven » Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:14 pm

i like the idea of chopping bolts on routes done on gear

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Post by RRO » Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:23 pm

pigsteak wrote:
Day wrote:It can be 100% fixed gear and still be trad. Many Tuolumne and Joshua Tree classics are 100% bolt protected. These routes were established ground up, on lead, and are most definitely not sport climbs.
I learned something today. So I can take a rack of 12 draws, and climb a trad route?
yes piggie. sometimes you should try getting off your fixed rap bolting static line and road trip some. go get on an old school slab route in j-tree. i was skered shitless a few times and most the time it was on 5.9 or less. the gear routes are much tamer ! or go get on some of the north carolina "bolted" routes and see if you think they are sport.

imo,1 bolt on a trad route is acceptable if there is a fall that will mame or kill you and no possible option for gear. thats what i consider a mixed climb. but most the time trad is trad, sometimes falling is not an option, when in doubt run it out.

its all situational/hypocritical ethics and every ones is different and from what i have experienced every ones has changed or will change at some point. a lot has to do with the area. the red all and all is a sport area, especially the newly developed areas like muir and the southern region. to me its goofier than hell to have 8 bolts and one piece of gear on a climb. are you really respecting the rock and all the people that follow by drilling 8 holes in the wall instead of 9 ?

piggie as scary as it is i agree with you on a lot of points. why do people get so carried away about putting a bolt close to a vertical crack but bolt or dont complain at all if a bolt is placed close to a horizontal, chicken heads, other natural feature ?

A LOT of the routes in the red could go on gear and be somewhat "safe". if people want to go balls out then lets go on a chopping spree and go balls out !!! but have your "ethics" in check and dont change them when the move is hard for you or you get a little skered of a fall.

situational ethics rule !
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Post by JB » Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:42 pm

here's my take:

If i have the possibility of placing a piece of traddy gear, it's a mixed line. So:

There are no sport routes in the Red River Gorge. There are a lot of routes with bolts that could take gear if you wanted to/were able to place it. FAs of bolted routes were all done by pansys who placed bolts because they were too scared to place gear.

Now days we can choose to climb the route with all gear or just clip all the bolts if we're chicken like the FA (probably pigsteak). If you really wanted to "sew it up", you could even place gear between the bolts (or right next to them at times), and make it nice and safe.

So all RRG routes are trad or mixed, there is no sport climbing.

thus sayeth the lawd. :roll:
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Post by RRO » Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:10 pm

JB wrote:here's my take:

FAs of bolted routes were all done by pansys who placed bolts because they were too scared to place gear.

just clip all the bolts if we're chicken like the FA

there is no sport climbing.

thus sayeth the lawd. :roll:
damn all those pansys :)
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Post by TradMike » Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:13 pm

Quite trying to make Face Up To That Crack a sport route. It's the perfect beginner Trad Climb. You sissies, I've seen countless beginners climb that thing without the bolt and they all loved it. Probably the only climb they will remember. Perfect if you want to place your first piece on lead. Respect the FA. You all are just jealous you didn't get there first.

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Post by pigsteak » Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:30 pm

whoa..now we got a fight..face up to the crack is a trad line?????? that is the BEST ever....lmao
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Post by JB » Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:40 pm

TradMike wrote:Quite trying to make Face Up To That Crack a sport route. It's the perfect beginner Trad Climb.
no, you missed my post. face up is definitely a mixed climb. there is no such thing as sport climbing.
RRO wrote:damn all those pansys icon_smile.gif
http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... hp?id=1022
heck yes i was a pansy on chocolate waterfall and i put bolts where i didn't find gear and was too chicken to run it out. and shame on you for reminding me that my first and best bolted route is now closed!
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