Mixed climbing wisdom

Gaston? High Step? Drop Knee? Talk in here.
rhunt
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Post by rhunt » Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:36 am

you people still don't get it. They are gear routes and sport routes. All of the climbing at the Red is "cragging" none of it is trad climbing. Like others I have climbed trad on all gear and on all bolts at Trad cliffs. Cragging areas like the Red and the New its either bolts or gear...NOT trad. Only real trad cliff around here is Seneca.

Get it? :roll:
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Post by RRO » Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:56 am

rhunt, you dont even climb anymore, your comments are invalid and taking up too much storage space. please refrain. thanks
http://www.redriveroutdoors.com

If you need to contact me , email me. Less Internet, less stress

rhunt
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Post by rhunt » Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:57 am

:lol:

It's only semi-retirement. Like when Jordan took some time off to play baseball. It got other interests at the moment. Plus I am waiting for Piggy to bolt some more walls so I can come and onsight everthing in a day. :wink:
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Day
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Post by Day » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:58 am

OK, let's go back to the original post. "what is a mixed route, anyway?"
In the larger world of climbing a "mixed" route means mixed rock and ice. That's all. In the Red River Gorge "mixed" is a protection note, as is "TR". "Mixed" means some gear and some bolts, "TR" means protected by top rope. While I only know my "mixed" routes in the Red, they are all trad routes for sure. The word "mixed" implies nothing about whether a route is sport or trad. Theoretically, it would even be possible to put up a "sport" route all on gear. Not very likely, as someone would be sure to clean all the fixed pieces, especially if they were valuable.

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Post by dyno_heaven » Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:33 am

you just made a nono. we just learned the red doesnt have trad

rhunt
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Post by rhunt » Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:08 pm

Thanks dyno heaven

finally someone gets it
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Day
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Post by Day » Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:34 pm

No, historically, cragging was trad climbing. Sport climbing is a relatively new style of cragging. Not sure what the confusion is about. Or, likely, I just don't get the joke.

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Post by pigsteak » Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:12 pm

when people get their panties in an uproar about 'trad" climbing, they usaually mean they are placing removable pro that leaves no trace of their being there. When any bolts are placed, I just thought a route was, by default, now a mixed route, and not a trad line.

that's all
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

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Post by ynot » Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:18 pm

quit thinking and shut up and listen to the man. he's schoolin ya right.
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Post by pigsteak » Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:55 pm

so you can have a mixed sport or a mixed trad line? or is it as rhunt sdays, and there are no trad lines at the Red?
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

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Post by L K Day » Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:43 pm

Plugging a piece of gear in the middle of a bolt protected sport route would not turn it into a trad line. It is the way a route is put up that defines a sport climb, most often this involves rap bolting.
Likewise it is the way a route is first done that defines a trad line, that is, lead ground up, with all pro, gear or bolts, placed on lead. That is the way climbing was traditionally done, thus "trad".

All routes established in the Red prior to sometime in the '80s were traditional in style. I have no idea what rhunt is getting at with his "no trad lines in the Red" statement. It is simply wrong. Not that any of this means shit in the greater scheme of things.

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pigsteak
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Post by pigsteak » Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:48 pm

ok, now it is making sense Mr. Day.....traditional had nothing to do with the idea of leaving no trace on the rock and taking all your gear with you....if you bolt a line on lead, then it is a trad line...correct?

so if I rap a potential line and determine it will go on gear, and perhaps even go ahead and place a few of the tricky pieces, this would then become a sport route....correct?

ignore rhunt..he is a bitter old man who has fallen into the armchair quarterbacking mode..pretty soon we'll see his 12 sport draws on ebay.
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.

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Post by rhunt » Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:20 am

lol no the first thing to go will be my "trad' rack.
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Post by L K Day » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:14 am

pigsteak, right.... protect the pitch on lead, it's trad. Prep the route with gear or bolts prior to the first ascent and it's sport. The difference between sport and trad is style. We could blur the line here. I'm sure there are plenty of routes out there that could not be definitively classified. The "leave no trace" thing was a radical idea that evolved in two distinct stages.

Remember, free climbs were originally protected with soft iron pitons which were left in place on the route. I'm not kidding, but the first stage of the "leave no trace" ethic was the introduction of chrome-molly pitons in California. They were placed by the leader, then removed by the second, thus "leaving the route as they found it" so that subsequent parties would have the same experience as the first ascentionists. Of course, after a route had been climbed only a few times, it was changed forever.

This lead to the movement toward stage two....chocks (hexes, stoppers, etc), and what was called "clean climbing". Prior to the introduction and widespread acceptance of chalk, this was the closest we came to "leave no trace".

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Post by captain static » Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:37 am

It's not mixed climbing to me unless I'm wearing crampons and there is ice on the rock :twisted:
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