electric cowboy

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absolutsugarsmurf
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electric cowboy

Post by absolutsugarsmurf » Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:54 am

I recently climbed electric cowboy (awesome route) and had a bitch of a time cleaning the route because of the rat's nest of slings that have been added so that quick links will hang from the bolts over the ledge to the face. I would have replaced the slings, but was unprepared for such a crummy anchor on a sport climb.

What are the ethics on replacing the slings with some chain link? I'm willing to foot the bill, hike out there, and replace the slings with chain and quick links. Any concerns from the community? I couldn't think of any off hand but I thought I'd put it out there first.

Also, I've heard there can be issues between using plated steel in combination with stainless. Since I've never replaced any part of an anchor before I wanted to make sure I didn't cause un-intended damage. Is there a standard set-up that is becoming popular in the Red that I could use?

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Post by marathonmedic » Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:34 am

I don't think there would be any problem from the community if you're replacing mank with something a bit more reliable. I haven't seen the anchor setup, but would it be a better situation for some new anchors in a new place instead of having chains running over the edge? How sharp is that ledge?
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Post by michaelarmand » Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:34 am

Check all the rules with the NFS land......But I say go for it. And if you are so ambitious there are plenty of sketchy bolts and other anchors that need to be replaced out there....
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Post by Steve » Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:50 am

If the bolts are good I saw just re-do the rig with new webbing and rap rings. The problem with chains over an edge is that they erode the rock into a deep groove, kinda like if a rope was repeatedly run over an edge. Think back to the chains atop Bedtime For Bonzo. I can't quite remember the top of EC, but would moving the position of the anchor take away from the last exciting moves?
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Post by absolutsugarsmurf » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:20 am

Replacing the quick links with rap rings on slings/webbing would be an easy and cheap alternative. However, the final moves on EC are always exposed to sun. I’m afraid the webbing would deteriorate due to excess UV exposure. The webbing currently there is looking weathered and feels stiff.

The exiting moves would not drastically be altered if the anchor was moved to the face and were kept short, without chain link, perhaps rap anchors instead of bolts. There should be a reason for where they are located though, John B was the F.A. and his judgment on the situation was likely more sound than mine is. Perhaps someone else can speak more knowledgeably on this matter. Besides, moving the anchors is out of the realm of my capabilities and is something I do not feel comfortable attempting. Maybe someone else does. Let me know if you want to, I’ll pay for the hardware, If it is a lawfull act in the NF (teamsuck?).

Webbing wears grooves in rock too. I really don't see a difference. Is there evidence of webbing being less abrasive than chain?

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Post by Steve » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:39 am

absolutsugarsmurf wrote:I really don't see a difference. Is there evidence of webbing being less abrasive than chain?
Chain heavy. Webbing light. Chain hard metal. Webbing soft fabric.

Looks like scientific evidence to me. I just remember the grooves the chain on Bedtime wore into the rock, it left a deeper groove in a shorter time than the webbing did. If people would properly replace the webbing and rings on anchors as needed things would be fine. Wasn't there a study finding that UV doesn't weaken webbing as much as previous thought? Of course bolt anchors and chains with a camo paint job are less visible than day glow yellow webbing. I guess I really don't care, whatever the bolting fairies decide is best sounds fine to me.

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Post by pawilkes » Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:33 am

i've been wanting to get on this route since i've heard such good things about it. I guess i'll remember to bring some webbing up w/ me just in case it needs to be replaced.
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Post by JB » Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:08 pm

have you really seen webbing leave a groove in the rock? that'd be hard to imagine.
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Post by RRO » Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:35 pm

we are planning a 9a/b rebolt weekend soon. if your interested in hanging ropes, carrying gear and even drilling some let me know and we will figure out a team weekend to get out there. 9a/b area will be a pet project this winter instead of bolting new routes.
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Post by pawilkes » Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:40 pm

depending on your definition of "winter" i may be game for helping out. im planning on moving down to Lex in Jan/Feb and would be keen to help out, especially if it takes me a while to find a job
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Post by bcombs » Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:58 pm

Yep, count me in too Matt. I get plenty of use out of the routes back there.

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Post by JR » Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:21 am

Can someone explain exactly why the chains at the top of Bedtime carved those groves. I doesn't seem to make sense to me. I actually though pulling the rope over the edge would be worse. Clearly it is not true. But why?

This situation is a bit of a Catch 22. On one hand you want to have safe anchors that don't rub your rope or the rock the wrong way. On the other hand I think it is cool to force people to top out to send the climb.

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Post by absolutsugarsmurf » Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:06 am

I didn't have to top out to send the climb. Just a reach around the lip to grab a ratty pile of slings. So maybe not a cathch 22. Are others topping out on EC for the send?

What is the opinion of the cable anchors that are sometimes used in Muir? I don't have a lot of experience with them, but a braided steel line sheathed in plastic would definately work to minimize abrasion of the rock.

Yes, I've seen webbing wear into rock at places that have soft sandstone like arches np and canyonlands.

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Post by Steve » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:10 am

[quote="absolutsugarsmurf"]What is the opinion of the cable anchors that are sometimes used in Muir? I don't have a lot of experience with them, but a braided steel line sheathed in plastic would definately work to minimize abrasion of the rock.[quote]

I hate cable anchors.

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Post by pigsteak » Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:17 am

steve,

personal preference or did you have an event with them?

I have never installed any of those cables, and can't say I like them either.
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