The Scene at Bob Marley

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Josephine
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Post by Josephine » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:32 am

that information was taken from the book "how to shit in the woods" - unfortunately i don't have it with me to give you the exact page number, but that was my reference.

here's more information:

http://www.chacha.com/question/how-long ... -decompose
Human feces will take 1 to 2 years decompose depending on the environment it is in.
http://www.lnt.org/programs/principles_3.php (emphasis added)
Contrary to popular opinion, research indicates that burial of feces actually slows decomposition (at least in the Rocky Mountains). Pathogens have been discovered to survive for a year or more when buried. However, in light of the other problems associated with feces, it is still generally best to bury it. The slow decomposition rate causes the need to choose the correct location, far from water, campsites, and other frequently used places.
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Meadows
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Post by Meadows » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:05 pm

In the Red, it breaks down faster but that's an interesting point about burial.

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Post by GWG » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:39 pm

anticlmber wrote:but in most of our areas there is a stream within 300 yards so its still bad,
Based on Leave No Trace principles, at least 200' is the accepted distance. 300 yds is a long way when you have to go! :lol:

http://www.lnt.org/programs/principles_3.php

Catholes
Catholes are the most widely accepted method of waste disposal. Locate catholes at least 200 feet (about 70 adult steps) from water, trails and camp. Select an inconspicuous site where other people will be unlikely to walk or camp. With a small garden trowel, dig a hole 6-8 inches deep and 4-6 inches in diameter. The cathole should be covered and disguised with natural materials when finished. If camping in the area for more than one night, or if camping with a large group, cathole sites should be widely dispersed.

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Josephine
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Post by Josephine » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:50 pm

Catholes
...Select an inconspicuous site where other people will be unlikely to walk or camp. ... If camping in the area for more than one night, or if camping with a large group, cathole sites should be widely dispersed.
[/quote]

i think this is the crux of the problem. there are just too many climbers in too small of an area!
"Unthinkably good things can happen, even late in the game." ~ Under the Tuscan Sun

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bcombs
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Post by bcombs » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:00 pm

Josephine wrote:i think this is the crux of the problem. there are just too many climbers in too small of an area!
+1

When you are digging a cathole and you dig up one from someone else, it is freakin horrid.

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Post by neuroshock » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:11 pm

Catholes
...Select an inconspicuous site where other people will be unlikely to walk or camp. ... If camping in the area for more than one night, or if camping with a large group, cathole sites should be widely dispersed.

i think this is the crux of the problem. there are just too many climbers in too small of an area!
If the story I was told is accurate, this is a big reason as to why WAG bags were instituted in Indian Creek.

In one of the popular camping areas, people went around and placed a small flag wherever a cathole was found. One complete, the campground/desert was covered with flags. It was decided that the area was too popular for sustained use without some system in place. Now there's a pit toilet and subsidized WAG bags (though it's still just a couple of bucks, I doubt that all actually pay their share).

Granted, decomposition of human waste in a desert environment probably occurs much differently than it would at the Red.

anticlmber
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Post by anticlmber » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:11 pm

sorry, meant 300ft, but 200 is better.
i was taught to go farther than you thought the last person had gone. i guess round here that makes it not too far.
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captain static
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Post by captain static » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:37 pm

I learned LNT principles @ NOLS. We were graded on campsites after we had packed up and were ready to leave. There was separate grading for latrine location. At the end of the course the person who was judged to have "the most scenic" latrine location that met LNT principles was awarded a banana split back in Lander.

It is really not that difficult people. Though I try to get my business over with before I head out into the woods I can't think of any situation while in RRG that I couldn't find an acceptable place to go. What really disturbs me about Bob Marley is that the climbers there are not gumbies and should really know better.
"Be responsible for your actions and sensitive to the concerns of other visitors and land managers. ... Your reward is the opportunity to climb in one of the most beautiful areas in this part of the country." John H. Bronaugh

powen01
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Post by powen01 » Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:09 pm

It really isn't difficult: http://store.americanalpineclub.org/ind ... -pack.html

And more like that are widely available on the internet...

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Clevis Hitch
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Post by Clevis Hitch » Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:49 pm

If you give a man a match, he'll be warm for a minute. If you set him on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life!

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kato
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Post by kato » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:13 am

captain static wrote:What really disturbs me about Bob Marley is that the climbers there are not gumbies and should really know better.
This is a mistake: "hard climber = good person"
No chalkbag since 1995.

Meadows
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Post by Meadows » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:43 am

Hard climber doesn't mean a bad person either, but could be an inexperienced person in the outdoors. We've all been that inexperienced person.

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Post by captain static » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:26 am

You're right Meadows. I tend to assume all climbers are outdoorspeople. One day @ Drive-By I stopped some climbers who were starting to bushwhack over to Bob Marley and pointed them to the new trail that was only roughed in at that point. Later that day I walked the trail over to Bob Marley and asked them what they thought. They were not able to follow it despite the fact there was orange flagging every 30 yards or so :)

Clevis, I will take a look at your list.
"Be responsible for your actions and sensitive to the concerns of other visitors and land managers. ... Your reward is the opportunity to climb in one of the most beautiful areas in this part of the country." John H. Bronaugh

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kato
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Post by kato » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:35 am

Meadows, I think I understand where you are coming from, but in this specific case, I have a hard time seeing it as an innocent mistake. If they were carrying TP, then this was their method.
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camhead
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Post by camhead » Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:12 pm

neuroshock wrote:
Catholes
...Select an inconspicuous site where other people will be unlikely to walk or camp. ... If camping in the area for more than one night, or if camping with a large group, cathole sites should be widely dispersed.

i think this is the crux of the problem. there are just too many climbers in too small of an area!
If the story I was told is accurate, this is a big reason as to why WAG bags were instituted in Indian Creek.

In one of the popular camping areas, people went around and placed a small flag wherever a cathole was found. One complete, the campground/desert was covered with flags. It was decided that the area was too popular for sustained use without some system in place. Now there's a pit toilet and subsidized WAG bags (though it's still just a couple of bucks, I doubt that all actually pay their share).

Granted, decomposition of human waste in a desert environment probably occurs much differently than it would at the Red.
It does. Decomp at the Red and at IC are as different from each other as it gets. If there were small user numbers, it would be completely fine to just shit on a rock in the desert, and then spread it around. The sun dries it in a couple hours, and wind disperses it in a couple days. This was the standard means of waste disposal in the Southwest backcountry for quite a while. At the Red, you would be fine just shitting in a shallow hole, not even burning your toilet paper or anything like that, just because of the moist decomp.

However, neither of these practices work when you have large amounts of people in very close areas
faceholdonacrackclimbDAB!

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