Environmental Impact of Rock Climbing

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Climbing, positive or negative influence on Cliffline Ecosystems?

Poll ended at Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:09 pm

Positive
7
19%
Negative
29
81%
 
Total votes: 36

charlie
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Post by charlie » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:54 pm

Keep your eye on the ball people, land use and impact is judged as significant solely by the landowners. Torrent is not Muir Valley is not PMRP is not USFS land which is why when Bob tells you to not cut down a tree or Rick tells you to stay on the trail your opinion should defer to theirs.

As far as I know the USFS mission is not to eliminate all human impact, it's to balance their properties in terms of sustainable land use (including recreational land use) and conservation for future generations. How well they do that is of course up for discussion but the LAC efforts are the current processes. They welcome your feedback.

http://www.fs.fed.us/aboutus/mission.shtml
The mission of the USDA Forest Service is to sustain the health, diversity, and productivity of the Nation’s forests and grasslands to meet the needs of present and future generations.

Motto: Caring for the Land and Serving People

The phrase, "CARING FOR THE LAND AND SERVING PEOPLE," captures the Forest Service mission. As set forth in law, the mission is to achieve quality land management under the sustainable multiple-use management concept to meet the diverse needs of people........

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Post by anticlmber » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:13 pm

Ascentionist wrote:
anticlmber wrote:
Ascentionist wrote:Climbing does localize impact, but if there was no developed climbing then there would be no impact vs. minimal impact.
i disagree andrew.
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sorry, hadnt had my coffee yet and i hate andrew.
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Post by Ondrej » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:29 pm

Without a doubt the impact of dogs at the crag or boulders. Not as important at crags like RRG, but they reek havoc in drier areas. Leave the pooch at home.

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Post by the lurkist » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:17 pm

Ondrej wrote:Without a doubt the impact of dogs at the crag or boulders. Not as important at crags like RRG, but they reek havoc in drier areas. Leave the pooch at home.
good job- way to derail a decent thread.
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ynp1
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Post by ynp1 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:31 pm

i think dogs are cool at the crags... the biggest problem are female climbers and their little wads of toilet paper they leave everywhere... i think it would be good to keep dogs and ban females. i dont like this because i would way rather watch a girl climb then a dude, but if is better for the enviroment then i guess i will have to live with it. so LEAVE THE GIRL AT HOME!
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DriskellHR
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Post by DriskellHR » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:58 pm

then stay home :wink:
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ynp1
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Post by ynp1 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:43 pm

DriskellHR, HA! did it take you 27 minutes to think that up... it was worth every minute!
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Post by pigsteak » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:49 pm

nice one driskell. I'm with you.
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ynp1
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Post by ynp1 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:40 pm

PIG man, what??

i think the girls are getting a little upset. is it that time of the month???

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ynp1
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Post by ynp1 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:23 pm

MOB=SCIENCE FAGGOT
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45percent
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Post by 45percent » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:32 am

captain static wrote:
45percent wrote:Your poll should probably include a "no impact" option. I think any impact is negative.
Would you consider a Forest Service approved hiking trail to be an impact and thus negative?
Yes; as I said, I consider any impact to be negative. That doesn't mean it's unacceptable.

Also, the poll specifically asks about cliffline ecosystems, which constitute a much smaller land area than the total gorge.

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DriskellHR
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Post by DriskellHR » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:57 am

DriskellHR, HA! did it take you 27 minutes to think that up... it was worth every minute!
Come on man you walkedright into that one. And No I am not that funny but as long as there is a smile on my face and It makes me laugh the who gives a rats ass what you think? :wink:

nice try though 8)
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captain static
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Post by captain static » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:52 pm

In the context of RRG I have yet to see anyone offer a valid argument on how climbing negatively impacts the cliffline ecosystem. Especially with the cliffline closures to protect White Haired Goldenrod. Forest Service documents for Daniel Boone National Forest consider the "cliffline community" to include 100' out from the top of the cliff to 200' out from the dripline at the bottom. With 320 miles of cliffline, this means 11,636 acres of cliffline community in RRG.

Since most climbs don't top out, climbing doesn't affect the top. The top is a sensitive zone with a dry environment and thin xeric soils. The bottom is a moist zone that has some capacity to absorb impact. Important ecosystem functions of the bottom of the cliff in RRG include that it provides a corridor for travel of animals and that there tend to be larger trees close to the cliffline. I don't think that climbing in RRG disrupts the travel of animals. On a rare occassion, climbing impacts might affect a large tree but the ecosystem is more than just one tree.

The bottomline, less than 2 acres of climbing impacts do not have a negative influence an 11,636 acre ecosystem.

For everyone who has responded negative to this poll I suspect that you either consciously or unconsciously see humans as being separate from nature and the ecosystem?
"Be responsible for your actions and sensitive to the concerns of other visitors and land managers. ... Your reward is the opportunity to climb in one of the most beautiful areas in this part of the country." John H. Bronaugh

45percent
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Post by 45percent » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:36 pm

captain static wrote:The bottomline, less than 2 acres of climbing impacts do not have a negative influence an 11,636 acre ecosystem.
But that's not what the poll is asking. You're saying the impact is acceptable, and I agree, and more importantly, the Forest Service agrees (aside from certain sections of cliff, apparently); but that impact is still negative.
captain static wrote:For everyone who has responded negative to this poll I suspect that you either consciously or unconsciously see humans as being separate from nature and the ecosystem?
Quite the opposite. We're the dominating force in all the ecosystems we inhabit, and it's in our best interest to be aware of our impact.

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Post by captain static » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:02 pm

Help me out Piggy.
"Be responsible for your actions and sensitive to the concerns of other visitors and land managers. ... Your reward is the opportunity to climb in one of the most beautiful areas in this part of the country." John H. Bronaugh

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